I hate the 640G: a rant

This is a secure and safe place for people to bitch, moan, argue, or rejoice (yes, really) about having Type 1 Diabetes. If something has inspired you or enraged you, here's your opportunity to let everyone know.

I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Kezza » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:04 pm

Last night at who-knows-when o'clock, I was woken by my pump's low battery alarm. I told it to shut up, figured I'd change it in the morning, and went back to sleep. Early in the morning I woke up again to the pump freaking out that it had less than 30min of battery left. So I changed the battery.

About an hour ago with no warning, my pump went straight to the '30 min remaining' stage. I assume a faulty battery, but I hadn't bought more in the meantime, so I'm back on the Veo.

Going back on the Veo has made me realise: I hate the @#$% 640G. The Veo always gave me more than 24 hours notice of dead battery. I didn't have to have batteries stashed at work, I never got woken up by my pump threatening imminent failure. I hate that the 640G runs on expensive batteries I don't have lying around yet seems to get less battery life and give me less warning. I hate that the larger battery makes it chunkier for seemingly no gain, and that I only use 1.8 ml cartridges but the smaller reservoir version has never appeared in Oz. I hate that it has a compulsory unlock key which is different every time so I can't commit it to muscle memory. I had the menu sequence of the Veo down pat yet I have had the 640G for over a year and the bolusing sequence still intrudes on my day. I hate trying to clear out of the 'low blood sugar' screen to try and find my insulin on board so I can determine how to respond and getting stuck with shaky hypo fingers at the lock screen. I hate that the slogan is "it thinks" - wtf, no it doesn't. It's got a fancy algorithm, that's not "thinking".

Most of all right now, I hate that there seems to be no way to clear the 'no battery delivery stopped' audible alarm. I've removed the dead battery and the reservoir, but there is no way to exit the alarm. The only way it stops is when the pump's backup alarm battery runs flat. I currently have the stupid @#$%ing thing wrapped in a t-shirt and stuck in a drawer so I can't hear it.

Having just redone all my basal settings on the Veo, I admit that's easier on the 640G. But I don't have a CGMS and I'm hypo aware, so I don't need its extra hypo avoidance capabilities. And for everything else - size, how it feels in my hand, type of battery, interface, ease of use - I prefer the Veo.

Halfway tempted to see if Medtronic will swap it for me.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby jonnyboi » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:10 am

I share your sentiment!

640g is my first pump and I've only been pumping for half a year, but dear lord, the alarms and that annoying unlocking feature.

I also had the same problem with the pump battery warning being way too close to battery death. The first time I had to change my battery, I saw the warning and thought "yeah cool, I'm at work, i'll switch it out soon when I get home". Turns out like 30 mins later it was fully flat.

I never really questioned it though, I thought this was supposed to be the "latest and greatest" of the tech available.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Sydney444 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:26 am

We had to send ours back for some reason and after tryng all possible ways to turn it off and having pulled out the battery it still screamed at us from being wrapped in something in a box like a Tasmanian devil trying to get out. It really has no way to say "just turn me off"
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby blambourne » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:59 am

I am so so so glad that I am not the only person in this world who seems to want to rant about this ridiculous pump. I agree wholeheartedly with everything you have said. The battery life is pathetic and I always get caught out in the middle of the night, why doesn't it give a longer warning time? Most of all I hate the unlock feature. I used to control my pump underneath my clothing, now this is impossible. I asked them why they made this feature and they told me that the reason was so that if the screen failed and you tried to jab all the buttons to turn it back on, you wouldn't accidentally give yourself a bolus - seriously??!! And even if that was a legitimate reason, why do I have to unlock the screen to access every other feature? I hate it so much. I'm really angry with medtronic and I've come to the conclusion that they are solely geared towards children but completely unusable for an adult.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Diana » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:32 pm

Yep, hate my 640g too, for all the reasons mentioned above! I was so dissapointed with it about a month after "upgrading" that I actually sat in my educators office and cried. It's my fourth pump (and my third Medtronic), so I don't think I have unrealistic visions of what a pump should be like to live with either... Gah, hopefully only three years until I can switch to something better, and I WILL be requesting a trial of whatever I decide to go with before committing next time :-(
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Smee! » Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:54 pm

Ooh, I hope you can bear with it until replacement time comes.

My replacement time was earlier this year and I was torn between the 640g or getting my second Animas Vibe. I did some surfing for independent user reviews for the 640g (not reviews from the Medtronic websites) and finally found one from a lady in US or UK I think.

She said very much the same as all of you that she could no longer use it under clothing, extra button presses required, etc. It was her review that made me stick with the Animas, even though there were no new features on it as the previous model. Her description of its use sounded far more cumbersome than what I was used to with the Animas.

The shortcut bolus (where you listen and bolus varying amounts by just the beeps) is a very important feature for me - something I use every day and quite often thru the night. I did not want to be scrabbling around in the dark to bolus, no doubt needing to find my reading glasses first to unlock and read the screen.

It may be worth providing them with feedback – hopefully they will take it on board and design their next model to be less bothersome.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Catapult » Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:18 pm

I have never liked Medtronic since learning of their 'proprietary' infusion sets way back when I began researching pumping in 2003 and got my first pump, a Cozmo, in early 2004. I've had a second Cozmo and only reluctantly got an Animas Vibe, my third pump, as the Cozmo stopped being sold. It had ALL the features I wanted and needed. The Vibe has most features. Medtronic seems to get on a lot of people's nerves especially this new 640G model, the 'second best' CGMS (compared to Dexcomm) and the poorer and power customer service. My endo dislikes Medtronic intensely, I've never asked why though.

The Dana issues reported on RC seem a huge stumbling block and legally I would think there is a case for compensation and a huge media outcry. I had liked the Dana claim of integration of one of their pumps with the smart phone but I'm glad I went with my gut instinct on that.

I've used an AccuChek Aviva Connect meter with Bluetooth to the Connect app on my iPhone to calculate meal and correction boluses, and their algorithms simply don't work for me. The AccuChek rep told me enthusiastically the app works exactly the same as the AccuChek Bluetooth meter and pump do together, so there's a huge turn off for me there too. I'm so glad I didn't go with this pump either, and learnt their messy clueless background algorithms the easy quick way by using their free meter and free app.

Ideally I'd like an Ommipod but without the dysfunctional compulsory PDA. I'd want smart phone control app instead. And for my meter a smart phone connected meter similar to Dario or iBGstar, but is directly incorporated within the app that controls the omnipod. I don't think this is that hard to code. All the systems already exist, it is just putting them all together into one app. A glucose sensor like Freestyle Libre would be nice too, but the need to constantly swipe to get readings every 8 hours, or when you need it, is off putting (as well as the cost). Blue tooth from the Libre sensor to a smart phone app with the Omnipod (or other pump app) would be perfect. I did see a guy on YouTube hack his smart phone and Libre to receive constant readings but the phone needed to be in a holster directly over his Libre sensor. Am I asking too much??? A new pancreas seems too much to wish for.

Cat.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Okin » Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:25 pm

I hate the 640G so much that I've stopped using it and gone back to MDI. It's not going well — lots of highs and dangerous lows but I don't want to go back to that shitty pump.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Kezza » Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:47 pm

Glad I'm not the only person with this experience, although sad Medtronic have made such a shitty interface. It's nearly a week later and I'm still on my out of warranty Veo. Can't believe how much better it is - can bolus with minimal fuss, alarms aren't as irritating. I had forgotten the Veo has a feature where it makes the alarm noise once an hour on a temporary basal, which is a bit annoying, but otherwise I'm really happy with it.

My 640G has a piece of plastic around the top of where the reservoir goes in that's loose, I keep finding it hanging on the line. I've been meaning to send it back for repair for a while, so am seriously considering asking them to send me a Veo instead. I'll give it a bit longer first.

Okin wrote:I hate the 640G so much that I've stopped using it and gone back to MDI. It's not going well — lots of highs and dangerous lows but I don't want to go back to that shitty pump.

That sucks. Have you been on a different pump before? May be worth asking for a Veo. Medtronic customer service are often quite good.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Jade » Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:40 pm

Ah interesting - the battery alarm and running low even after replacing with a fresh one is an actual issue I've discovered.

About a month ago I had a situation where I had popped a fresh battery in and less than a week later it wanted a new one (I normally get about 4 weeks from one, with running a CGMS 24/7). Then after less than a day the low battery alarm went off again, so swapped it for a fresh one and then after only a couple of hours. Thought this was a bit odd, so called the helpline. They made me take out the battery and wait for the pump to completely die and reset itself. They said it can happen when the pump for some reason isn't rebuilding its own internal battery charge and is just completely running of the AA battery. I followed the instructions and haven't had a problem since.

It just makes me wonder how often this actually happens to others... is it a fault? They've assured me if it was to happen again they'd replace it.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby artemis » Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:31 pm

I'm hanging in because I am hypo unaware, especially at night. The turn off feature is why I got this pump in the first place. But honestly, the amount of time I've spent on the 'helpline' is disgusting. Never had the problems I've had with the 640G with either the Cozmo or the Vibe.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby RedZ » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:41 pm

Thanks to everyone for discussing their issues with the 640G, these posts will help us decide what pump to go with next. i prefer to hear from users rather than adverts.

Catapult sorry to hear about your issues with the Aviva Connect, we have been using the Accu Chek Combo pump for several years and found the meter was very accurate for us and control has been excellent.

J
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby blambourne » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:36 pm

Catapult - in my absolute ideal world I could control my pump from my smart phone. I feel like this would solve almost every issue I have with my diabetes at present and its so simple - do you have any idea why dana is the only system that has this feature? (I equally am too scared to go with dana after all the dodgy supply issues etc). But if it is possible and its clearly approved why doesn't medtronic or any of the other companies introduce this feature?? I'm at the point where I want to find someone who could hack the technology for me, it would improve my quality of life immeasurably
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Okin » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:56 pm

That sucks. Have you been on a different pump before? May be worth asking for a Veo. Medtronic customer service are often quite good.


When I spoke to the Medtronic rep I was offered a 'one time only' offer of a VEO or a refund to my health fund. Unfortunately, I had a lot going on at that time and I was unable to make a decision (I was still using the 640G at that time). Actually, I'm still not sure which I would choose if they offered this again (they won't).

I was originally attracted to the 640G because of the low suspend, which is something I would want if I could actually afford CGM. I could have accepted the VEO but I shouldn't have to accept old technology simply because Medtronic is incapable of making an acceptable pump. Also, I don't think that Medtronic should be paid the full cost of a new pump if they actually sell me an old model.

I really hate Medtronic.

While I'm at it, I might as well mention that I really despise the local rep who, when I last met with her in a cafe, chastised me loudly and extensively for my technique when filling the reservoir. She's aggressive and rude and knows next to nothing about type 1. Tip for newbies — always check that the rep that is sent to talk to you actually has type 1.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby abs » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:17 pm

Okin, what was the supposed issue with filling your reservoir ??
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Okin » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:35 pm

Apparently, when filling the reservoir you are supposed to stick a pen or chopstick in the end of the pen cartridge and push, because as you fill the reservoir it becomes difficult to extract the insulin and this increases the likelihood of air bubbles (or something like that).

When I said that I have never had a problem extracting insulin from a pen cartridge or with air bubbles, she didn't believe me and loudly and repeatedly told me that I was doing it wrong, to the point where other people in the cafe were turning to see what the fuss was.

If there is an issue with the design of the reservoir, they need to fix it and include all of the required parts, not tell people that the only way to use their product properly is to stick a chopstick in it.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby abs » Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:56 am

ah, I actually do do that... I still MDI for bolus / corrections and so have plenty of syringes about - usually two in my thing that I carry around with my insulin in it. So can use one whilst withdrawing with the other.... or use the needle cover, or just the cap from a syringe whilst the cartridge is full

Since there is often air in it at least when first filling the reservoir, you gotta flick it and push that back up into the reservoir anyway, what a num nut for seemingly going off at you like that. Wow
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Christhelegend » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:08 am

I don't have the 640G and have never had to use it (happily pootling along with my Veo), but one would think the lock function as described by several of you is typical of the yanks and their over litigious society! Usability is a very distant second to ensuring the dopey yanks don't kill themselves by pressing a button 'accidentally'.....
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby tedos » Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:53 pm

I actually like the 640G but hate hate hate HATE the locking function. The alarms that sound (even if you are in vibrate) if you don't clear the warnings are an overkill. I'm very discreet with my pump and prefer it that way, with the unlocking functionality, its a pain, have to look at the pump when clearing the alarm because need to hit the right arrow button. The messages that need to scroll to the second screen in order to clear is abysmal, whoever thought of that design obviously lack user interface experience - its very poorly though out.

If medtronic can update it to remove the locking and scroll functionality, I think there will be a lot of happy pumpers out there.

I wonder where we can submit feedback to medtronic, this thread in itself is evidence that there are some design considerations that have been missed.

As for the batteries, I'm currently using rechargables (eneloops). They last as long as alkalines. The lithium is too expensive to sustain in my opinion. The rechargables do well i think, you just have to have some spares around. Sure its more expensive in the short run and you have to invest in a good charger, but i think it will pay off in the long run. Alkaline batteries are so cheap nowadays anyway.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby carolyn » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:49 pm

OMG, Medtronic kept trying to tell me I was the only one who hated the 640 - so glad to see there's others!
I've whinged to them on just about every 'forum' with emails, FB posts, phone calls asking them to put me on the design committee before they release the 670 (don't think that's going to happen though...)

The lock function, the fact if not using a linked meter you need 12 button pushes to bolus, the auto suspend not turning back on in time, the fact it's upside down when you take it out of your pocket (at least the Veo is only sideways), it looks like it was designed for a 180ml cartridge but then someone decided to make it for a 300ml so they just bunged a stupid chimney bit on the top, having to scroll down to get rid of a message, and yes the bloody lock!
I had several Medtronic reps tell me the auto lock is so if low we don't accidently push the wrong button but had a Medtronic guy in the Sydney office, not sure if he's got more to do with the design side but he's a bit higher up the chain than the reps we usually see, he told me it's in case the screen goes blank and we start randomly pushing buttons to try to get it to work again - that makes sense but then most of us would probably disconnect before doing that.

Fortunately I only had the 640 as a trial so I'm back on my Veo even though I was due for a new pump last month. I supposed the only 'good' thing I can say about the 640 is it's much better than and Vibe - I actually came up with 19 reasons why I didn't like that!
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby artemis » Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:47 pm

The only reason I didn't go for the Vibe was because I am hypo unaware, and the Smart Guard function helps me.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Kezza » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:06 pm

tedos wrote:I wonder where we can submit feedback to medtronic, this thread in itself is evidence that there are some design considerations that have been missed.

You already are. They monitor social media and forums and someone from Medtronic will be reading this soon if not already.

carolyn wrote: it's in case the screen goes blank and we start randomly pushing buttons to try to get it to work again

Someone else earlier in the thread said the same thing, so seems likely it's either true or it's the story they are telling people. That just makes me pissed off, because seriously? How likely is the screen to fail? Not very likely unless there's a known fault they aren't telling us about. And if the screen does fail, how likely is it that someone will start "randomly pushing buttons" without disconnecting, and even if they do, how likely is it that they'd hit the exact sequence to bolus? Even if they hit the exact sequence to bolus, how would they get it to deliver without holding a button to scroll up either the BSL or carbs?

So in other words we're all forced to deal with a stupid unlocking feature multiple times a day because someone in a risk analysis meeting said "but what if...?". I'd like to have a chat to that team. At minimum there should be an option to turn the unlock feature off. By all means bury the option deep in advanced settings, so it won't be found by anyone likely to stab multiple buttons while connected to a malfunctioning blank-screened pump. The other 99% of us who have common sense could get rid of it.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby tedos » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:44 pm

Kezza wrote:
You already are. They monitor social media and forums and someone from Medtronic will be reading this soon if not already.



Would be good if we did get a reply from a rep. This unlock functionality complaint is all over the internet when you read people's review on the pump - not from just the australian region but all over the world. If the reason is really for the screen goes blank all of the sudden, then i'm sorry its not good enough.....medtronic should be resolving the root cause.

They really should get someone who has diabetes to give feedback before they release the pump... for a person who does not have diabetes, they don't use the same way because they don't live and breath it.

This functionality aside, I do think that the 640G is an improved pump but its lost a lot of brownie points from silly functionalities.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Kezza » Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:05 pm

tedos wrote:Would be good if we did get a reply from a rep.

Reality Check doesn't generally allow posts from companies and they know it, so that's unlikely. They'd have to go through the mods first at a minimum. In any case I'd expect it to be a form letter telling us all about how important safety is to them and not addressing any of our specific concerns at all.

I do think the hypo suspend is a great feature for those people who are hypo unaware and on CGMS. I also eagerly await the next step, which is a bit more of an ask: correcting rising sugars overnight. However I really hope they fix their interface in the meantime.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Okin » Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:28 am

Reality Check doesn't generally allow posts from companies


Really? What about this: http://www.realitycheck.org.au/RCforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12594. This was blatant advertising. There was no mention at the time about whether Medtronic paid for this.

In my comments above I didn't state all of the things I hate about the 640G because they are too numerous to detail and I have tried to list them on RC before, but they might be worth restating for people who are still considering getting this pump. I have copied some of my thoughts from a 2015 thread (sorry, I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong with the quote function).

I hate this pump. I’m reluctant to list the things I hate about it because I know that I will forget a few and my hatred will seem unjustified so here are just a few things:

Medtronic lied to customers about the availability of a 1.8 ml pump. Early on, they sucked people in by saying that if they got the 3 ml pump, they would give them the 1.8 ml in a couple of months’ time when it became available. They have since told me that there will never be a 1.8 ml pump so I am stuck with the bigger 3 ml pump for four years. Does anyone know if the ACCC or Fair Trading will look into this or if there is another body that will?

The pump is bigger and uglier than the previous model. My old clear pump blended in with my clothes and was less noticeable. The 640G is a massive black box that stands out and is very obvious. It is way too large for my body and is uncomfortable when sitting and sleeping.

I have trouble remembering if I have bloused and often need to check. On the 640G it takes six button presses to view the last bolus. Six! The most insulting part of this is that Medtronic calls this the ‘quick status’.

There are multiple warnings about checking ketones, etc. if you are out of range when bolusing. Because Medtronic thinks you are an idiot. There is no way to turn this off.

I can’t find daily totals. I can see the daily history but I can’t find the totals. Can anyone tell me where this is?

Poor quality control. When I first got my pump there was a long narrow black paper sticker along the top of the screen. I peeled this off thinking that it was some sort of protective barrier but when I took it off I discovered that a thin sliver of white light was visible along the top of the screen. Medtronic decided to deceive customers rather than fix this problem.

Medtronic CGM sucks. I haven’t used it with this pump but I did with my previous pump and it was so inaccurate that it was completely useless. If you check the US forums where heaps of people have used both Medtronic and Dexcom CGM, you will find that almost no-one prefers Medtronic over Dexcom and I don’t think I have seen one person go back to Medtronic after trying Dexcom. Integration seems to be the only reason anyone sticks with Medtronic.

If you intend taking your chances with the appalling Medtronic CGM, don’t expect it to wake you during the night. I have tested the alarms and there is no way they would wake me. Also, there is only one setting for all of the noises the pump makes, so if you set it for the loudest CGM alarm, all of the other noises will be set to the highest volume, e.g. there is no way to discretely bolus. Everyone will know what you’re doing.

Can’t automatically change between basal rates, e.g. weekday rate to weekend rate. This must be done manually.

Can’t name basal rates. You’re stuck with the preset names (Basal 1, Basal 2, etc.). This is unacceptable in a device released in 2015 and is a safety issue.

The Bayer meter that comes with the pump is useful (and the battery life is great) but I had to stop using it because it tests too low (so you are actually higher than you think). I did side-by-side comparisons with my other meters and I also tested within one minute of a blood draw at a pathology collection centre and the Bayer meter is about 2 mmol/L too low. This caused a substantial rise in my HbA1c and I had to stop using the meter because I value my eyesight and kidneys over convenience.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby artemis » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:32 am

Interesting comments about the meter, Okin. I've found it to be accurate and my A1c has improved from 7.2 to 6.9. I also find it shows similar (and sometimes identical) readings to my other meters. Maybe you've got a crook meter?

From memory, Medtronic paid for that thread. Later we had to tell the guy who was running that particular thread to stop putting his oar in in other threads.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby tedos » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:49 am

Kezza wrote:Reality Check doesn't generally allow posts from companies and they know it, so that's unlikely. They'd have to go through the mods first at a minimum. In any case I'd expect it to be a form letter telling us all about how important safety is to them and not addressing any of our specific concerns at all.

.

Mods, given this is like the 20th post (I didn't count) on this thread by all different people, would it be possible for you guys to send the Medtronic rep a link to this discussion just in case they are no monitoring it, and more importantly to request their feedback.

For me, I think the 640g is great but there are certain functionalities and fundamental usability issues that hinders the usage and is more backwards than forwards. And those seem like easy fixes for them if they care enough to address it.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby carolyn » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:12 am

Okin wrote:In my comments above I didn't state all of the things I hate about the 640G because they are too numerous to detail and I have tried to list them on RC before, but they might be worth restating for people who are still considering getting this pump. I have copied some of my thoughts from a 2015 thread (sorry, I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong with the quote function).


I gave Medtronic a similar list Okin, I had 9 problems with it - but I had 19 on my list of things I didn't like about the Vibe...
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby abs » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:26 am

Carolyn, can you give some insight into your 19 ??

I can probably guess some but the fact that it works with the dexcom cgms makes it a winner in my eyes
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby carolyn » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:18 am

I agree Abs, Dexcom was why I was seriously considering changing from 16 years with Medtronic - until I trialed the Vibe:

-Cancels bolus if you hit a button and no option to continue bolus
-No escape key, have to scroll down to botton of screen to get back home
-Too many button pushes for everything (although if not using a linked meter the 640 takes 12 for a bolus)
-Temp basal in 10% increments (i'm very insulin sensitive)
-No other warnings when low insulin
-Screen hard to see in sunlight
-Slow audio bolus
-Prime alarm after auto off
-New clip too big
-Old clip hard to put on delicate fabrics
-BSL starts at 4.4
-No record of previous BSLs
-Annoying music alarm
-Asks if want to use BSL to calibrate after bolus delivery
-Need at least 10 units to prime
-Heavy
-Easy to lose ‘cap’ when doing cannula changeover (is a real issue when doing a changeover in the drivers seat of a truck)
-Combo bolus doesn’t calculate using insulin/BGL
-Screen not flat so easy to scratch
Half the people you know are below average.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby tantan » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:25 am

tedos wrote:
Kezza wrote:Reality Check doesn't generally allow posts from companies and they know it, so that's unlikely. They'd have to go through the mods first at a minimum. In any case I'd expect it to be a form letter telling us all about how important safety is to them and not addressing any of our specific concerns at all.

.

Mods, given this is like the 20th post (I didn't count) on this thread by all different people, would it be possible for you guys to send the Medtronic rep a link to this discussion just in case they are no monitoring it, and more importantly to request their feedback.

For me, I think the 640g is great but there are certain functionalities and fundamental usability issues that hinders the usage and is more backwards than forwards. And those seem like easy fixes for them if they care enough to address it.


And if that should happen, I think it would also be worth pointing Medtronic towards the posts about the limited remote functionality in the 'A question for all women wearing pumps' thread as well!
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby abs » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:14 pm

Ah okay... some aren't relevant to me since I don't normally do any bolus/corrections (unless its 2 or 3u) via the pump. I prefer to continue using MDI for that... otherwise I'll be refilling the 1.8ml cartridge every 36hours or so and get very flooded sites which I guess leads to scarring
-Cancels bolus if you hit a button and no option to continue bolus
-Slow audio bolus
-Asks if want to use BSL to calibrate after bolus delivery

See above

-No escape key, have to scroll down to botton of screen to get back home
-Too many button pushes for everything (although if not using a linked meter the 640 takes 12 for a bolus)

Yeah, an escape key or hold the top button down for 3 secs etc would be good. Something like single click for CGM/Hold for home

-Temp basal in 10% increments (i'm very insulin sensitive)
I'm not sensitive at all, so the main temp basal I use is -90% if going or am already low - and when I know there's only a handful of units left, I up the basal to simply speed up those last few units

-No other warnings when low insulin
I have mine set at 10u, so three.something hours out of being empty. In my 12 months of pumping, it seems to be okay for me.

I also refill once, so if I know it'll be empty during the night, I have refilled just before going to bed. Fortunately it only takes a minute or two. Sometimes I'm ready to go before the rewind has completed

-Screen hard to see in sunlight
Yeah I understand that, but after trialling the whatever Medtronic pump 2 years ago with a CGMS trial, I found that impossible to read (old pager style text). Even with my blurry (without glasses) I can operate the Vibe pretty well.

-Prime alarm after auto off
??

-New clip too big
-Old clip hard to put on delicate fabrics

Dunno which one I have, it seems secure enough. But can understand delicate fabric that makes up various women's clothing (thinking of what's in my wife's clothing)

-BSL starts at 4.4
-No record of previous BSLs

Not certain of the 4.4 part, and with CGMS I dont see the lack of recording being an issue ?? Not that I send data off to anyone anyway

-Annoying music alarm
haha, yeah, i understand that one, but I prefer it that way ;)

-Need at least 10 units to prime
I use the 110cm sets (which hold about 18u), and actually reuse the looooong part many many times. Til I get suss about it's integrity. Thus the end takes about 2u or something to prime (as per above, I reuse the cartridge and end part of the set once, then replace both). I find the cartridge still holds heaps so I push that back into the penfill 3ml cartridge.

-Heavy
How does the weight compare to others ?? I don't know so can't compare

-Easy to lose ‘cap’ when doing cannula changeover (is a real issue when doing a changeover in the drivers seat of a truck)
Yeah, I've nearly lost mine more than once. Now I try to lay everything out neatly before starting

-Combo bolus doesn’t calculate using insulin/BGL
I thought it took BSL (from CGMS) and override manually / IOB when doing bolus stuff. Though I just checked and its only the ezCarb that does. But I dont use that anyway. Combo bolus I do when I want a couple of units but not in the one hit. Usually a max of 2 or 3u

-Screen not flat so easy to scratch
I see your point on that one too. Mine seems to be holding up well so far... it does have a screen protector on it though

In a nutshell, I agree the menu design / number of button presses required, could be better - it does seem to be a pretty common "complaint"

Thanks for your feedback Carolyn
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby carolyn » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:20 pm

Not sure what would be the best option for low insulin alarm, mine's set at 20u so when I get the alarm I know I don't have to rush home from work to change it over, and when I do get home I get more warnings just so I don't forget to change it over (I also know when it says empty I still have about another 20 units left in the line if I get caught out). Setting the alarm at a lower level for me could mean I would run out when at work.

I found the 640 screen was pretty good in sunlight, much easier to see than the Vibe.

When the auto off alarms goes off you then need to prime before the Vibe will 'start' again. Before the Vibe had an alarm clock I'd use auto-off as the alarm, when I went off I'd just cancel and away we'd go but with the Vibe you have to stuff around and prime it.

Not sure how many T1s regularly get a BSL of 4.4 but no way of changing that level, that's the number that automatically comes up on the Vibe, and if you're much higher it takes ages to get the that number as the button jumps up in numbers so fast it's hard to stop it when close to your level.

If not using CGMS it can be handy to see what your previous BSL was but can't see it on the Vibe.

I use the combo at the movies when grazing on a bucket of popcorn for a couple of hours but Vibe combo bolus won't calculate how many units you need according to your BSL.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby tedos » Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:32 pm

I'll add three more to the list,
1. when changing battery the pump will sound even if pump is on vibrate , which means I have to go and hide (and wait for everyone to leave) in the bathroom to change the battery if I want to be discreet. Likewise for priming and changing reservoir

2. Alarm fatigue - if you don't clear the warning, the pump will sound even if your pump is on vibrate. It attracts attention if you are in a meeting and everyone looks at you and asks what the pump is! The low suspend alarm will beep even if you set alert silence for the duration - defeats the purpose of alert silence!!

3. The speed of the bolus should have something in between. The low setting is so slow and the fast setting is excellent but it's so fast that it stings the infusion site!
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Alana__ » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:00 am

I recently upgraded to a 640G from an Animas Vibe.

I really like the 640G. I'm finding it much easier to use than the Vibe. Yes the unlock button is annoying but I can live with that. The fact that you can't prime the line to get rid of bubbles unless you use the 'Fill Cannula' feature also annoys me but they're two minor issues. I love the integrated meter and the fact that I can easily see the screen outside.

I recently travelled overseas for a month with this pump and had no issues at all. I'm getting 4 weeks out of a lithium battery (but not using CGM).
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Maarten » Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:40 pm

Every time when I fiddle around extracting insulin out of a cartridge to fill the reservoir (for our 13 year old son), I ask myself:

- why can't I insert an insulin cartridge straight into the insulin pump?
- I feels like companies have designed this (also with new models) for profit making only, making the process of managing T1D more annoying than necessary :-(
- Any legal limitations or implications why this cannot be changed????
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby abs » Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:33 pm

different size cartridges across companies / across countries ?? I just checked, and the Lantus and Novorapid 3ml cartridges are different thus need a different pen to cope. So it's possible Novorapid alternatives are potentially different
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby straygaijin » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:44 am

abs wrote:different size cartridges across companies / across countries ?? I just checked, and the Lantus and Novorapid 3ml cartridges are different thus need a different pen to cope. So it's possible Novorapid alternatives are potentially different


Are you sure? I have lived in Japan, England and Australia and had no issue using the same pens that I have had for over 10 years and buying novo rapid and lantus cartridges in all those countries. There are a couple of different models of pre-filled pens that use different cartridges but I have had no trouble getting the normal 3ml ones.

I'd be curious about what countries that don't have the standard cartridges available just in case I end up there!
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby abs » Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:19 pm

the lantus and novorapid cartridges are definitely different. No idea about the same brand of insulin being different across different countries, hence the questions. I was wondering if that was a possibility
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby straygaijin » Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:49 pm

abs wrote:the lantus and novorapid cartridges are definitely different. No idea about the same brand of insulin being different across different countries, hence the questions. I was wondering if that was a possibility


Yes Lantus and Novorapid are different from each other. Each product is consistent globally in my experience however.

Novo and Lantus are made by competing companies and just like razor blades, they want to keep you using their product so they don't share designs. It would need someone like the FDA to mandate a change.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Bertie » Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:24 pm

Thank you folks....I was longing to update to the 64OG but I'm gonna stick with my current pump.

My recent experience with Medtronic (and other BGL technology) has told me stick with I've got because late model stuff is worse. I find it utterly puzzling how newer technology can be so much worse than previous models.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby abs » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:39 pm

straygaijin wrote:
abs wrote:the lantus and novorapid cartridges are definitely different. No idea about the same brand of insulin being different across different countries, hence the questions. I was wondering if that was a possibility


Yes Lantus and Novorapid are different from each other.


My point was that there are other insulins used in pumps rather than just novorapid - I know Lantus wouldnt be - so its feasible that other pump based insulins could well have different cartridges, thus making it unusable in a pump / you'd need some sort of adaptor dependent on the cartridge used
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Mel » Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:15 am

Really glad I read this thread I am long overdue for a pump upgrade and probably would have just gone Medtronic as I've had two of theirs before. Definitely will be checking out all options now.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Kezza » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:57 pm

Mel wrote:Really glad I read this thread I am long overdue for a pump upgrade and probably would have just gone Medtronic as I've had two of theirs before.

That's what happened to me :-(. I was due for upgrade not long after it was released (so no user reviews available) and I just figured I've liked my previous pumps, never had a customer service problem and this is their latest and greatest, it'll be fine. Next time I will be requesting trials.

Interestingly carolyn's list of issues with the Vibe make it sound worse to me, so I may have been low on options even if I'd shopped around. The latest technology bells and whistles (""it thinks"....) are all well and good but hopefully one of the major suppliers realises we have to use it multiple times a day every day and usability is crucial.

I am still on the Veo and no desire to change back. It gave me 'motor error' instead of 'no delivery' last time I accidentally let the cartridge empty all the way, so I'm not sure how long I have with it. Need to decide whether to try and extract a refurbished Veo out of Medtronic in exchange for my 640G.
Ever tried to send a text message with your pump? It doesn't work!
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Mel » Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Kezza wrote:
Interestingly carolyn's list of issues with the Vibe make it sound worse to me, so I may have been low on options even if I'd shopped around. The latest technology bells and whistles (""it thinks"....) are all well and good but hopefully one of the major suppliers realises we have to use it multiple times a day every day and usability is crucial.



I know it is all sounding really crap, I don't want bells and whistles I just need a variable basal rate and square wave & normal boluses. The rest I can do, I don't even need it to calculate IOB or carb counts, there are so many other background issues that those algorithms are just as much a "guess" based on 1 glucose readings as my honed by years of wild-ass guessing methods. I don't know how much longer my old Paradigm is going to keep going-it's a reformed one I got sent when my original died within a month of warranty & it's cracked.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby artemis » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:32 am

Having used the 2020 and Vibe for 5 years, and now 18 months with the 640G, I don't find it much different with the button pushing and alarm side of things. I turn off the high alerts (drive me nuts) and leave the low alert on. That's the reason I got the 640g - hypo unawareness, and that works for me. Also didn't see the point of getting a new Vibe and having the same old technology for 4 more years. Might be worthwhile checking with AMSL if they are bringing a new pump out in the near future.
Jane
Infundo ergo sum.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby abs » Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:05 pm

Animas are bringing a new pump out later this year in Sweden to begin with - looks like it works with the Dexcom G5 and will have low suspend. When I touched base with AMSL about it a few months ago "we know nothing" was their response, but then they said the same when the Dexcom G5 had been released in the USA. Took a while before they could say anything... my rep was surprised how quickly I'd heard about it - I'd left a message for her but she did finally call back and say that head office "knew of it" but only unofficially so couldn't say much more so was easier to say "we know nothing" as it was reliant on Dexcom making stock available to be sent here

Apparently when the announcement came out, Animas had all but stopped selling the Vibe there in the lead up to releasing the new pump.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Catapult » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:50 pm

I'm surprised everyone hasn't learnt by now that the last place you get information about new pumps, cgms, meters etc from is from the suppliers. Their response is to deny everything in order to ship out as much old outdated stock as quick as they can before rumours of better equipment spread.

Have I may noticed patterns due to my Aspies and personality type or am I just a massive cynic?

My number 1 motto after all, is Trust No one.

Cat ;)
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Mel » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:28 pm

Haha Cat, maybe you're a cynic but I'm with you, that's why I've decided to do research from people you can trust-the actual users.

Again anyone else interested in doing an interview on their current pump, let me know!!
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Mel » Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:33 pm

Does anybody object to being quoted in an article on this-I will do so by your screen name, but let me know if you want to be totally anonymous or would like your real name or something. Thanks.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby kaz » Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:21 am

Currently back to MDI as never quite 'taken' to this pump. Just seemed to become too much work & fatigued me. And yes had the same problems with battery life and alarms.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Mel » Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:03 pm

Wow, that's really interesting Kaz. It's so crazy isn't it that the pumps are becoming more wearisome obviously a case of not listening to the users during the design phase. So frustrating.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby kaz » Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:23 pm

Also I think 14 years of pumping could also have to do with it Mel! If you discount CGM doesn't feel like pumps have evolved anywhere near enough.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Mel » Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:33 pm

I think I've been pumping a similar amount of time. I think pumps have evolved a bit but they've become more annoying and complicated in ways that aren't helpful IMO that's one reason, apart from general slackness that I haven't updated my pump.
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Noulas » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:52 pm

The 640's alarms are really annoying, the worst being when your using Cgm, manually enter a high bsl, then after you've put the pump back in your pocket, it alarms to tell you the entry you entered was high. No shit Sherlock.

I can understand if I have a low alarm that isn't responded to, for it to alarm like crazy, but why i have to respond immediately to any insignificant warning is ridiculous and adjustment can be made to these alarms setting is just wrong
John - T1D since Sep 02
Switched from my Novopen to a 640G & CGM 7/4/15
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby Mel » Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:00 pm

So how are the high and low alarms set in the 640? Can you not turn off at least the high alarm or set it to 44 or something?
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby abs » Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:06 pm

The vibe and dexcom receiver do the same. Fortunately I have the dexcom receiver high alarms turned off. The low alarm on it is3.5whereas on the vibe, I have it setat3.9

Both will alarm at3.1
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Re: I hate the 640G: a rant

Postby artemis » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:05 pm

I turn the high alerts off on the 640. Low alarms I leave on. The high alarms drove me crazy.
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